in Football

The 2012 Problem

Dec 1 2012 Waco TX USA Baylor Bears running back Glasco Martin 8 is gang tackled by the Oklahoma State Cowboys defense during the first half at Floyd Casey Stadium. Mandatory Credit Jerome Miron US PRESSWIRE

Photo Attribution: US Presswire

OSU went from 12-1 to 7-5 in 11 months and everybody wants to know why.

Scores of people are clamoring for Bill Young’s dome on a platter. Others (myself included) cited a downturn in offensive production as the reason OSU had its worst record since 2007 (!) this year.

The real answer (as it ALWAYS does) lies somewhere in the middle.

First, let’s look at the offense1.

[table id=139 /]

TDs are down a little bit but FGs are up so those come close to canceling out. We actually punted fewer times and turned it over about the same.

All in all our production per drive decreased about .22 points per drive. When you take into account that OSU averages about 14 drives per game that’s about the equivalent of a field goal per game.

Now to the much maligned defense.

[table id=140 /]

Young’s D allowed a few more TD and a few more FG but actually forced way more punts than last year. As you can see there is an….ahem….large discrepancy in number of turnovers forced2. We’ll come back to this.

Points per drive are up exactly the same number (.22) that points per drive were down on offense.

When you add the decrease in offensive production (.22 points per drive) to the decrease in defensive production (same) and multiply that by the average number of drives by each team in an OSU game (14) you get six points per game, or one TD a game worse than 2011. The offense and defense share the blame equally here3.

The only difference in this year? Really, the only reason OSU went 12-1 last year and 7-5 this year is that they created 24 (!) more turnovers on defense last year than this year.

Of those 39 turnovers forced last year, OSU scored 22 TDs and two field goals. That’s 11.5 points per game.

This year on 15 forced turnovers? 10 TDs and four FGs. That’s only six points per game.

Notice the difference there? 11.5 minus six is 5.5 — OSU’s decrease in production this year (as we stated earlier) was about six points. Turnovers pretty much tell the entire story.

So let’s not go for the throat of our defensive coaches before we look at the numbers. If you want to blame them for our inability to pick balls off and the luck of which way fumbles bounce, then go ahead. But not for the way the defense played overall, they were really good this year4.

This system (the OSU offense plus the OSU defense) is predicated upon consistently getting in the end zone and creating turnovers on defense. You can’t throw the D out there 95 plays a game and expect them to hold teams to 20. You can, however, expect them to get you the ball back by creating turnovers.

Which they didn’t do.

Which is why we’re playing in the Heart of Dallas Bowl.

  1. I threw out the bowl game since this year’s team hasn’t played in it yet
  2. You might see that OSU forced more turnovers but some of these were fumbles on special teams (see Tech last year). This is only when the defense is on the field
  3. Since the offense and defense regressed at exactly the same rate this year — should we fire Monken too?
  4. Unless you want to say they sucked last year also, in which case, we have a different argument on our hands
  • Kris

    You forget this was the best defense since Gundy has been here, stats show it was worse than last year. You don’t get turnovers when you play your DB’s five yards behind the receiver and put no pressure on the qb. The O had a new qb three times and new receivers. That they had that kind of production is impressive. This was the year we needed Bill Young and he ran backward, not toward the battle.

  • POKESWin44-10

    I totally agree with Kris. The problem is not that Bill Young is totally crap, I think he’s a nice old man, the problem is that this year we were told that the D would stiffen and the offense would experience growing pains. If its gonna be the same old turd just don’t blow sunshine up our asses.

    • Schultzy

      Except the defense has been very good during his tenure here.

      • dooley

        no it hasn’t. “bend don’t break” is another term for “we can’t get off the field on 3rd down.” they aren’t a good defense.

  • Glove

    Not trying to sound like a jerk here but do you really think the defense is really good this year? I understand that it’s tough in the Big 12, but it seems way too easy to pick up 7-10 yards on OSU. With the DBs playing off the WRs as far as they have been, its easy to get a quick 5 yards on the osu defense. The defensive lineman would have to get to the QB lightning fast to cause a problem. Not saying that its necessarily a bad way for the defense to run but I can’t help but think that there are better ways to run the defense.

  • jpokes

    Lets be honest
    1) Young has brought consistency only since he’s been here… our overall talent has improved and we all know why.
    2) We have the talent for a better defense. Bama-good?? Heck no, but TCU, Kstate good, heck yeah.
    3) We need the scheme to show that. Young is consistent but we are past those points. I don’t know if Gundy sees hims as a father-figure or is worried about his health or what, but this is the next step in the progression. He has to see that.
    4) The reason we forced more punts is because more of those drives ended in TURNOVERS, not because we did a better job getting off the field.
    What was our 3rd down percentage last year and this year?

    • http://pistolsfiringblog.com Kyle Porter

      2011 opponent 3rd down conversions: 42%
      2012 opponent 3rd down conversions: 37%

      • jpokes

        Not a huge difference in the big picture… I would have to say here also, it would be interesting to see how many of those drives never saw but one or two 3rd downs?

        • jpokes

          I betcha 75-80% of the 3rd downs we defended were in our red zone.

      • dooley

        and how about in our 5 losses? I think that 3 game stretch where we gave up less than 20 points per game makes this defense seem better than it really was. We faced some really terrible QB play in those games.

    • OSU-Bill

      @jpokes has this right. At the very least there needs to be compensating defensive scheme based on offensive production. IF we buy the argument that our offensive scheme dictates the type of defensive scheme Young has been playing (which I’m not sold on), then when the offense is not as productive (less total plays, less time of possession, etc.) then we should see a corresponding pickup in defensive production. We definitely did not see that.

      More to the point, there is no reason that K-State (for example) should have a better defense than OSU. We have better recruiting and we get better athletes. The missing variable is scheme (or, even worse, I fear, coaching). In fact, I would argue that the offense has operated most efficiently when the defense has been efficient. Getting a third-down stop or turnover in the opponent’s territory most often leads to scoring.

      My final point deals with probabilities and questioning that a great defense is mutually exclusive to having a great offense. I think that it is difficult to maintain any football unit (whether it is offense, defense, special teams, etc.) at #1 in the country from year-to-year. In a down year we slip from #1 or #2 overall offense (and top 5 in most subcategories) to #5 overall offense (and top 10 in most subcategories). However, there is a LOT of room to improve when we’re #82 overall defense (#36 rushing, #112 passing, #72 scoring).

  • Ryan

    I could not agree more. We knew that our offensive production was going to be down after losing two first round draft picks. The frustrating part is the inability of the defense to get off of the field in long situations. You could probably even attribute some of the offensive downturn to the fact that the defense was on the field for most of the game. Turnovers are a huge key to the difference in the 2011 and the 2012 defense (especially when you are talking about 24 turnovers difference). I recall several talking heads talking about Gilbert and Brown being the best CB’s in the country (after the honey badger was kicked off the team) and we are playing the “best CB’s in the country” over 10 yards off of the line of scrimmage?? When you have the best defense in your tenure then you force people to beat you, you dont give them a cushion all the way to the 1st down marker. I dont remember very many times when our defense “forced” a stop, if you go back and look at most of the games the 3rd and 4th downs were not converted because of a bad pass or a drop not because our DB’s were great in coverage.

  • http://gravatar.com/rwhetsell62 @mfc_crff

    Last year’s defense survived on turnovers, period. Turnover production like this year and who knows what last year would have been. The defense cannot consistently depend on turnovers, b/c to some extent that is not in their control. The defense has to be able to impose its will at least some of the time instead of sitting back and hoping for mistakes by the offense. Remember how in certain momemnts Weeden used to throw to Blackmon even though we all knew where the ball was going? The defense needs to be able to do the same thing.

    • jpokes

      AND in years past we couldn’t do that with our talent. I believe that has changed. We would be able to get a solid DC I’m sure

  • poke99

    I would like to see the 4th down conversion % between 2011 and 2012?

    • http://pistolsfiringblog.com Kyle Porter

      2011: 55%
      2012: 52%

  • Blake Taylor

    I think we’re missing some key data points here:

    -Special teams (return TD’s, returns TD’s given up, etc)
    -How many points did last years D score versus this year (Not talking about turnovers that the offense turned into points. I think there’s some unaccounted for points hidden in there somewhere)
    -We talk about how both sides have dropped off a tad but the offense dipped due to the loss of 2 1st-rounders whereas the defense returned all but 3 (?) starters from what was considered the benchmark of a good squad

    I think, adjusting for what each side had to overcome (draft pick and graduation losses, injuries, etc), the offense well outperformed the defense this year. But none of that really matters because it’s a team sport and our Pokes finished a disappointing 7-5.

    • http://sadastronaut.wordpress.com Chance

      “whereas the defense returned all but 3 (?) starters from what was considered the benchmark of a good squad”

      I think that’s a very good point. I don’t feel that our defense should be close to last years, but should be much better.

  • orangestateofmind

    Kyle is definitely right, the difference is the turnovers. I like the rankings Football Outsiders has for Defensive and last year due to our turnovers we were ranked #3 in Defensive, this year #33, the difference is the turnovers. Here are some detailed football outsiders metrics that OSU does not stack up good in:

    Me: Methodical Drives, the percentage of each opponent offense’s drives that run 10 or more plays.

    2011: 19.1%, rank of 111
    2012: 18.5%, rank of 105

    Ex: Explosive Drives, the percentage of each opponent offense’s drives that average at least 10 yards per play.

    2011: 11.5%, rank of 48
    2012: 12.6%, rank of 53

    FD: First Down rate, the percentage of opponent offensive drives that result in at least one first down or touchdown.

    2011: 67.5%, rank of 66
    2012: 66.7%, rank of 52

    If I was defensive coordinator my goal would be to get my unit off the field as quickly as possible through punts or turnovers. The bottom line is that we are not good at getting off the field, I like and respect Bill Young because he has led marked improvement over what we had previous to his arrival, but we need a change in scheme to eliminate the 15 yd cushions, generate more pass rush, and get off the field. If Young cannot agree to change up some of his principles (not sure if Gundy looks at advanced measures like this or not?) then I would wish him all the best as he is part of the OSU family but I would not be sad to move in another direction.

    Lastly, I think the 3rd down conversion %’s are skewed because we give up 1st downs in 1 or 2 plays alot, which is backed up by the methodical and explosive drive rankings above.

    • http://pistolsfiringblog.com Kyle Porter

      Great comment, thanks for being rational.

    • Will

      OrangeStateofMind wins the thread. We have the same D we had last year. Kyle’s right that the only difference in results comes from turnovers, but Young’s D scheme has always been the same. Bend but don’t break. That’s fine when you’re up 2 TDs most of the time, but it’s a killer in close games when you need your D to make a stop at in the last 5 minutes and they’re too gassed to tie their own shoes.

      Young’s done a good job getting talent and producing fundamentally sound players, but his strategy works against those players too much of the time. It was the case last year too, and many of us have been saying the same thing for the last few years, not just because we’re 7-5.

  • Scott

    i refuse to believe that our horrible defense is good based on any statistical information. I will use stats though to point out that over HALF of the plays that OU ran ended in a first down or a score in the bedlam game. Read that again. over HALF. That my friends is ridiculous.
    And as much as i hate writing about OU – OU won the national championship in 00/01 against the defending champions Florida State who came into that game averaging 42 points a game. Read that on Kyle’s link this morning regarding the BigXII bowl games. OU allowed 2 points in that game. They didn’t “hold them to 5 points less than they had been averaging” or whatever crap we’re spouting – they played badass defense. They didn’t give 15 yard cushions. They didn’t “try to keep everything in front of them”. The corners covered. The LBs were everywhere. They stuffed the run. They basically did everything that we don’t do with the current schemes. And you can’t say they had all-world/superior athletes. OU had been horrible for a decade when Bobby rode into town.

    • Schultzy

      DON’T WORRY GUYS. HE’LL USE STATS TO PROVE HIS POINT, BUT IF THEY DON’T SUPPORT HIS OPINION, THEY ARE WORTHLESS.

      Also, I really love how he references one game to help support his point. One!

      • Scott

        please. our defense is horrible. i don’t run a blog – i don’t have time to look up stats and compare our defense – which doesn’t work – to defenses that do. keep responding in all caps – it’s cooler that way

        • Schultzy

          You are wrong.

  • http://gravatar.com/rwhetsell62 @mfc_crff

    Slice and dice any way you want, the defense is not assertive enough. Figure out how to fix it, and you can’t depend on an avalanche of turnovers to get it done.

  • Ryan E

    “The only difference in this year? Really, the only reason OSU went 12-1 last year and 7-5 this year is that they created 24 (!) more turnovers on defense last year than this year.”

    This is exactly right, except that I support the opposite overall conclusion: The defense was NOT good this year. The defense CAN be categorized as “good” last year, but ONLY because of the turnovers. They still gave up a huge amount of yards and spent the majority of the game on the field, same as this year.

    After watching this year and last year, I think we can all agree that turnovers have a whole lot of luck involved. The players gave no less effort this year, but managed to produce 24 fewer turnovers. That’s an astounding number.

    You can’t go to battle every Saturday dependent upon creating 3 turnovers per game. You need to be able to end the opponent’s drive in a timely fashion. Our philosophy intentionally keeps them alive until they either make a mistake, or creep far enough into our territory causing us to “tighten up” and try to hold the line. Give them a handful of yards, just don’t give up the big one, over and over and over, all the way down the field.

    So what about last year? All any of this says to me is that even with the best offense in school history, without that avalanche of turnovers we would have been good for 7 or 8 wins. Is that acceptable to anyone?

    Yes, the offense stalled out this year at times. What did we say at the beginning of the year? “Well, at least our D will bail us out while the O gets settled.” Nope.

    (Also, I haven’t looked this up at all, but wasn’t the “best” Bill Young year his very first year? With Orie Lemon?)

  • tomg

    OSU didn’t win a game this year against the top 30. Went undefeated last year unless ISU was <31. The stats that matter are in the games that count towards the conference and BCS and when the game is on the line. The rest is for losers per Monken and I think the overall stats are what is implying. Case in point, OSU schedules another Savannah and not Arizona. The offense and defense could have better stats this year and the result is 12-1 verses 8-4. Call it adjustment time for coordinators when the playbook gets expanded and the risk reward increases. Night and day between last year and this year. I expect years this this to happen and see no reason for panic. However, let us not miss the opportunity to find solutions. We just did this on offense a few years ago and now it is time for the defense.

    The non conference match ups largely are irrelevant when playing 9 conference games (KSU 2012). Seems to be an issue with Holder and Gundy and I see both sides. Gundy wants wins and Holder wants the AV to become reality and will maximize revenue at each opportunity kinda like Sexton. The lost at Arizona doesn't keep a 10-2 or 9-3 OSU out if NIU doesn't get picked. Heck the Irish went to #1 with a #30 SOS. OSU fans wanted the OU finish and they are in the Cotton Bowl. At the end of the day OSU fields a team that has passion for their school and coaches that reflect positively on the university. It is good to be a Cowboy and I look forward to another bowl win and better results in 2013.

  • Poke

    The thing with season averaged stats is that we had a decent defense – on average. Those averages overshadow the few critical situations where we needed defensive stops that ended up costing us games. Hence, Monken’s stats are for losers argument; if we can’t get it done in very specific instances, it doesn’t matter how well we play on average.

  • BBinKC

    If, as you say, they system is predicated on creating turnovers, then why do we play such soft defense. You cannot create turnovers playing prevent defense/soft “keep them in front of you” coverage and getting no pressure on the QB.

    You also mention that “you can’t throw the D out there 95 plays a game and expect them to hold teams to 20″. Why are we content playing prevent and letting our opponents grind out long 10-15 play drives that keeps our high powered offense on the sideline. Much like an up-tempo basketball team, shouldn’t we want to bring lots of pressure, take some chances, and get the ball back quickly by either creating a turnover or giving up points on a drive with fewer plays. Not to mention our defense is gassed when we get in to the 4th quarter because they have been on the field for so many plays. When they are tired they miss assignments (see Baylor 4th qtr TD run) or cannot make physical plays (see Blake Bell runover two of our players on the tying TD run) when the game is on the line in the 4th qtr.

    If our offense is a rhythm and timing offense, why make them sit on the sideline forever watching the defense give up first down after first down. My other beef is that we seem to take out some of our best players on third down. Shouldn’t we want Barnett & Catleman pushing the interior of the line back in the QB’s face instead of trying to bring in all speed guys?

    • Scott

      amen brother

    • dooley

      exactly right. talking about how many plays per game you have to be out there is a bit ridiculous. I understand our offense can score quickly, but if we could stop the opposition then we wouldn’t have to worry about facing so many snaps. Let our offense wear down the opposition, and put the game out of reach early. At that point you can go to our every down prevent defense.

  • ryan

    Remember in 2011 we would talk about “trash time” and how our defensive numbers don’t look good because we would play our 3rd string for most of the second half and teams would rack up 400 yards. So when we compare 2011 to 2012 we have to remember that our cheerleaders were on the field in the second half of most games last year. In my opinion we have to play more physical (especially in the secondary) because when we play off of the ball we don’t give ourselves a chance for interceptions. We had 24 interceptions in 2011 and 9 in 2012! I had just as many interceptions as Gilbert and Brown combined and I sat on the couch!

  • Andy

    I don’t disagree with the defense comments. My biggest complaint was seeing our DBs start 5 yards off the ball and start backing up before the ball is snapped. On 3rd and short, we were killed all year on outs, slants and hooks by the opposing WRs because our DBs were so far off the ball.

    That being said, I would like to look at one issue on offense. To the best I can find, look at the number of Pick 6s that our 3 QBs threw this year. From a quick review I can see that: Lunt had 3 pick 6s (AZ, TCU & Kstate), JWWalsh threw a pick in the WV game that the DB ran down to the 1 yard line and the next play WV scored, and Chelf threw a pick 6 against Baylor. Equivalent of 5 PICK 6s this years? I understand we have young QBs, but that is a killer. If I remember right (and I could be off here), but I believe that Weeden threw 2 Pick 6s last year.

    Finally, I wonder about special teams. We allowed several KR and PR run backs for TDs (Texas, OU, (off the top of my head)). I wonder what the that point differential is on KR and PR for touchdown is between this year and last year.

    Great analysis Kyle.

    • http://gravatar.com/rwhetsell62 @mfc_crff

      Minor correction, that was Chelf against WV.

  • http://gravatar.com/khampton03 khampton03

    2012 problem…white jerseys!

    • Schultzy

      Good talk

  • Jason

    What we’re losing in this is the Savannah State factor. Sav St. punted 12 times. The defense gets credited with a great performance in that “game” and we all know it was a farce. They also had 17 drives that were never going to turn into points. Every opponent on the 2011 schedule was more than capable of scoring. How would those numbers look with the Sav. St. game taken out?

  • Cowboy525

    There are several things I agree and disagree with that have been posted here in regard to our defense. However, in my opinion, the real problem this year was special teams as one poster mentioned above. If you look at our losses – other than Baylor and Arizona – you can see instances in every game of where special teams was a problem. Texas game we give up a kick return TD and lost by only 5, that was the difference in the game. Bedlam, we give up a punt return TD and lose by 6 in overtime, that was the difference in the game. K-state we give up a kick return TD, and yes we did answer with one of our own, but it was on a short kick-off and due to poor tackling on their part. Needless to say they also had at least 2 other long kick returns that resulted in drives starting in our territory. We lose this game by 14 I believe, special teams was the difference. I don’t put too much emphasis on the Arizona loss as it was non-conference and basically offensive turnovers and poor discipline (penalties) seemed to cost us. As far as the Baylor game I would argue that if we pull out the Bedlam win, the Baylor game is an entirely different game. Therefore, in closing if we do not have these costly special teams miscues we could possibly be discussing an 11-1 Big 12 Championship team playing in a second consecutive BCS game. I can almost guarantee there would not be any discussion about replacing our DC. I am not in any means backing the defensive play, just seems to me that special teams is more of a problem at this point in time.

  • R00st3rPokes

    Didn’t like the defensive scheme last year, and didn’t like it this year. Therefore, all the talk of this year versus last is worthless. The program has changed – Gundy being the instigator of that change (a change for the better I might add). Bill Young has stayed stagnant, therefore, time for a change at his current position. It’s a simple management issue, not a stats issue. You can’t manage people, schemes, etc. by stats. You manage behaviors.

  • Ryan

    The offense scored 8 less touchdowns, but 5 more field goals. Net/net that is 33 points less this year. That would have one us a couple more games.

  • http://gravatar.com/foxhoundadam foxhoundadam

    What about 4th down in the 4th quarter with under 1 minute less to play against ranked opponents with the game on the line. This year we were 0-2 in those situations (OU and Texas). In 2011 we were 1-0 (Kansas State). What a difference those three plays make on a season.

  • Sean

    I’m with Jason – I would love to see these stats with the Savannah State game taken out. We didn’t play any world beaters in our non conference schedule last year but those were 3 somewhat competitive games at least. Against Savannah State we scored 12 touchdowns on 16 drives and gave up 0 points on 17 drives.

    Curiosity got the best of me so I went ahead and figured the stats without the savannah state game. For reference I brought the stats down from above in parenthesis.

    Offense:
    157 drives
    51
    25 FG
    2.42 points per drive ( 2012 = 2.61 ppd / 2011 = 2.83 ppd)

    Defense:
    150 drives
    37 TD allowed
    15 FG allowed

    1.78 points per drive allowed ( 2012 = 1.59 ppda / 2011 = 1.37 ppda )

    Quite the difference. Say we replace savannah state with Tulsa and its a 63-35 kind of game and we still look worse with than with the savannah st. statistics figured in. I don’t remember who mentioned but it was a great point – we gave up a lot of those points on defense last year with our 2nd and 3rd string defensive players. Factor in that those guys didn’t see nearly as much playing time this year and I think its safe to say that our D took a significant step backwards, but so did the offense.

    I just hope Lunt can work on his turnover issues and the secondary gets their act together so we can take full advantage of getting OU in Stillwater next year.

  • Dylan

    We have a bend, don’t break defense that bends AND breaks. Stats are for losers, and coming up with a stop in important situations are what counts. Lots of good points here by everyone. Also, pick 6’s, special teams malfunctions, and 3 and outs by the offense in the 4th quarter did not help throughout the season. I think BBinKC nailed the his/her response

  • Josh C.

    Our defensive scheme gives up yards in heaps. Our offense, although not as potent as last years, was still good enough to put up 30 some points against UT, and close to 50 against OU, and was good enough to rank in the top 10 nationally all season. If our defense was really as good as Kyle, and some of you think it was then, those two games should have been wins. You can’t tell me that the offenses lost those games for us. That is a joke. This blog, and and some people with comments on this post, I feel are over complicating this situation, when the truth of the matter is, our defense under Bill Young, gives up a TON of yards, which more times than not, turns into points. We can slice the numbers anyway we want (pts per poss., 3rd dont eff., etc) at the end of the day its simple, our defense doesn’t make plays when it needs to, and gives up way to many yards way to easily.

  • Jesse

    Maybe if we played man with our secondary & hard zone rather than a soft zone where our corners are 20 yards back from Reciever. What helped last year was Markelle killing recievers after the catch to force fumbles. I will say our D-Line looks so much better this season, secondary looking overrated.

  • Glove

    Not trying to sound like a jerk here but do you really think the defense is really good this year? I understand that it’s tough in the Big 12, but it seems way too easy to pick up 7-10 yards on OSU. With the DBs playing off the WRs as far as they have been, its easy to get a quick 5 yards on the osu defense. The defensive lineman would have to get to the QB lightning fast to cause a problem. Not saying that its necessarily a bad way for the defense to run but I can’t help but think that there are better ways to run the defense.

  • pistolsguy

    @ewood19 I’ll listen to that argument.

  • pistolsguy

    @john_rowland11 yes.

    • Pokelahoma

      @pistolsguy didn’t last year’s team get a significant amount of lucky breaks in the to category? So we’re either lucky or bad?

      • pistolsguy

        @pokelahoma I think we’re good, were lucky last year and unlucky this year.

        • Pokelahoma

          @pistolsguy does needing to be pretty lucky to win ten games make you kinda nervous at all?

        • pistolsguy

          @pokelahoma haha, ish. I dunno, we are what we are.

  • BlakeTaylor

    I think we’re missing some key data points here:
     
    -Special teams (return TD’s, returns TD’s given up, etc)
    -How many points did last years D score versus this year (Not talking about turnovers that the offense turned into points. I think there’s some unaccounted for points hidden in there somewhere)
    -We talk about how both sides have dropped off a tad but the offense dipped due to the loss of 2 1st-rounders whereas the defense returned all but 3 (?) starters from what was considered the benchmark of a good squad
     
    I think, adjusting for what each side had to overcome (draft pick and graduation losses, injuries, etc), the offense well outperformed the defense this year. But none of that really matters because it’s a team sport and our Pokes finished a disappointing 7-5.

  • pistolsguy

    @cowboysrff @Pokelahoma apparently it was good to very good – http://t.co/SicyLNEH

  • pistolsguy

    @cowboysrff @Pokelahoma apparently it was good to very good – http://t.co/SicyLNEH

  • pistolsguy

    @cowboysrff @Pokelahoma chicken, egg.

  • pokegrad2009

    The big picture here is simple and your data proves it. Bill Young’s system relies on turnovers to produce wins. It isn’t sustainable to force the record number of turnovers that we produced in 2011. It’s that black and white to me. Additionally-we can’t drop into a zone or give opposing receivers a 8-10 yard cushion and win games in the spread big 12.