Griffin, Weeden, And Making Sense Of It All

Written by Kyle Porter

Photo Attribution: US Presswire

One of my Baylor friends put it best the other day when he told me “I think Griffin single-handedly birthed a rivalry between Baylor and OSU in just three games.”

My response: “yeah, it’s the first rivalry ever created by an individual because he was bad rather than good.”

Quite the paradox, eh?

And now we have a full-fledged social media spat on our hands.

True or false? Oklahoma State fans hate Baylor more than they hate OU right now. I say more true than false. Maybe I should make it a poll.

The Griffin narrative, however, is only a subset of our Baylor vitriol. This thread of “we want to beat the piss out of Baylor in every sport imaginable, why don’t they have a wrestling team?!?!” is equal parts Griffin, Baylor being good at football and basketball, Baylor fans acting like Baylor is elite at football and basketball, and Scott Drew doing Scott Drew things.

For now let’s push Drew to the side and take a look at the other three issues:

1. Baylor being good at football and basketball – Isn’t it funny that part (or most) of the reason we’re so anti-Bears is because of this: they’re a non-traditional power raging against a rhythmic establishment (the Big 12 Conference) with a confidence (other words could be used too) that belies their history (which is not good).

Does this not sound familiar, friends? Is this not the very template each and every OSU fan used in January when they swore off ESPN and that “dad-gum blasted family of networks owned by them Disney folks” because they propped up a Bama-LSU title game at the expense of the little guy (namely, us)?

Yes, I get that it’s more than that, but you’re a fool if you don’t think that at least part of the Baylor venom is because they’re good and we’re not used to that and we don’t know what to do with it.

It’s the same way Texas views OSU.

2. Griffin – OSU fans need to settle. the heck. down. (myself included). Griffin turned in one of the most statistically staggering seasons ever. Over 5,000 rushing/passing/receiving yards, 47 total TD, 73% completion, and only six picks (two against OSU). It’s not like the dude was Paul Thompson or something, he was good. Just because he wasn’t for one game in Stillwater (his 425 passing yards would have been one of the 10 best games in OSU history, by the way) doesn’t change anything.

The three biggest issues I (and probably most OSU fans) have with him are as follows:

– He gets praised for being “a humble leader” and “one of the classiest kids ever” but goes out of his way to rip on OSU’s secondary (that he couldn’t beat) and then refuses to credit the only Big 12 team he couldn’t beat. Am I going to hang a kid for two postgame quotes? No, but it does bother me that stuff like this gets swept under the rug for the most part. It’s not how leaders are supposed to act and I’d be disappointed if Weeden or Blackmon said anything similar after the Iowa State game (but they didn’t).

– Let’s say this never happens. Or maybe “the comeback” never goes down. Or this is a few feet left. Griffin doesn’t win the Heisman. He’s probably not the #2 overall pick. The hype machine never gets rolling.

It’s amazing to me the tiny variance between “possibly the greatest college QB of all-time” and “exciting dude for Twitter but never amounted to much winning on the field.” And this was the bigger issue I think we had with Weeden not going to NYC for the Heisman ceremony. If Sharp’s kick is literally a foot to the left, Weeden probably wins the Heisman. Ubben even said so the other day. Because it wasn’t though, because his kicker messed up (and for many other reasons), Weeden doesn’t even get a sniff from people. It’s such a strange, and sometimes broken, system because, really, what does a kicker have to do with how good or bad you are at playing QB?

– He was 22-18 in college. Yes, he played at Baylor and their defense wasn’t very good. But Weeden played at Oklahoma State and theirs wasn’t either (allegedly) and he managed to go 23-3 in his two years there. And don’t give me this “but Weeden had more weapons” thing because Baylor had a WR that’s about to be acknowledged as one of the 20 best amateur football players in the world four weeks from tonight.

The other day, Mike Mayock almost gave us the first written orgasm in sportswriting history when he wrote about the 18-yard comebacks Griffin was throwing at his Pro Day. The praise from all ends of the sports analysis/blogging/writing industry is synonymous: this dude is the real deal.

And honestly, I mean if we’re looking at this thing in a totally objective manner, he has been. Who wouldn’t want the multi-degree track star, who travels cross-country for prayer meetings with aspirations to go to law school, who scoffs at the behemoth that is professional football in our country?

I think what grates against OSU fans is that Weeden hasn’t gotten the run that Griffin has despite the fact that he’s been EVERY BIT as good (if not better): 9,000 yards, a 70% completion rate, and 71 TDs in the last two years (to 26 INT). The numbers are there, yes, but what really sticks in the craw of Cowboy fans is that he has every intangible Griffin has (and doesn’t wear “No Pressure No Diamonds” t-shirts to prove it).

Team first.

He’s been all of these things and more and nobody can figure out why Griffin gets the accolades and Griffin goes to NYC and Griffin gets paid and Griffin is compared to Luck. It’s not about football that much, it’s about why the world is in love with the third Griffin but tosses the first Weeden to the side.

And this is where I throw up my hands. Should Weeden have done more Heisman poses? Predicted himself the winner on national TV? Was he hurt by the fact that OSU destroyed teams and Griffin played in (and won) tight games against good teams? I have no idea.

3. Baylor fans acting elite – First, a few facts:

– Baylor has never beaten a single-digit seed in the NCAA Tournament (since it expanded to 64 teams in 1985).
– Baylor has finished better than 4th place in the Big 12 in football/basketball three times in 32 tries (all 3rd place finishes).
– Baylor and Oklahoma State have played 50 football/basketball games in Big 12 history. OSU is 39-11.
– Baylor and Oklahoma State have the same number of postseason basketball appearances (three) in the last four years.

I’ll keep this short and simple. Your school is getting better at football and basketball. Your school is not an elite football or basketball program.

Here are examples of elite football schools: Texas, Florida, Ohio State, Oklahoma, Southern California, and Alabama. Oklahoma State is not an elite football school and can’t be unless it sustains the past, oh I’ll say, three years of football success for the next 20 (a long shot for sure).

Also, here are some examples of elite basketball schools: Duke, Kentucky, North Carolina, UCLA, Kansas, Syracuse, and UConn. Oklahoma State has never been an elite basketball school (though it teetered on the edge for about 15 years). Baylor has six NCAA tournament wins since 1950, all in the last three years.

It’s okay to be fired up about your squad and the team you root for on Saturdays, but stop acting like you’ve owned the collegiate landscape for the last decade. Stay in your lane, enjoy your success, and (from someone who just lived/blogged his way through a crappy 15-18 basketball season) don’t take it for granted.

Theoretically, Baylor and OSU fans should be able to get along. We’re both little brother to a historically more dominant athletic school in our own state. We both have, or will have, incredible football facilities in the next five years. We both have a Heisman trophy.

Maybe it’s Todd McShay’s fault. Maybe all of this will pass when Griffin and Weeden go on to have successful professional lives. Maybe we can all hold hands and sing Kumbaya next year in Big 12 solidarity.

Or maybe this is beyond repair. Maybe OSU fans won’t coma back. Maybe Baylor fans don’t care whose toes they step on in their proposed ascent to the top. Maybe Baylor and OSU will slug it out for second place in Big 12 hoops for the next 10 years.

Maybe a rivalry has been born.

  • Susan

    I totally agree with your assessments and I’ll add that I think it’s a Baylor fan’s nature to feel “elite” anyway. They think their school is elite so it’s an easy transition for them regarding the athletic program. Your number 1 isn’t a problem for me. I’m not “that” OSU fan. More power to Baylor. Dig your way out of the ditch. I always pull for the underdog; however, I certainly hope that WE continue to have their number in football. I have to be glad for them that they are no longer the stuff that homecoming dreams are made of (them and KState!)Regarding Griffin: I like him in every interview that I hear him outside of discussing OSU games. He acted like a big ol’ baby at the 2011 OSU game.

    • jay

      Very well put Kyle. A+ work.

      Food for thought: If Colorado and the Arizona schools don’t vote against the UT/Tech/OU/OSU contingent and the Pac-12 becomes the Pac-16, Baylor is scratching and crawling just to get an invite to the Big East so they aren’t relegated to the non-AQ world of MWC and C-USA.

      • CJ

        Absolutely right here.

        And it’s great drama isn’t it? It’s the underdog making good storyline that is so attractive to media.

    • It’s a Texass thang

      I’ll expand it to all of Texass. They HATE losing to any team from Oklahoma. Sooners have beaten them all so much they’re used to it.
      Truth is Horns, Tech, A&M, Baylor are all scared poo-less that they might have to pass through both Sooners and Cowboys to win anything.

  • Justin

    I hate Baylor more than OU. – FALSE
    I cheer against Baylor whenever I can now. – FACT
    What’s funny is that when I met Baylor’s President Ken Starr during Homecoming he was secure enough in his school’s recent athletic rise to admit we have a great football team. Why can’t Golden boy Bob do the same? Don’t preach leadership and character when you can’t manage to keep your helmet on while on the field or own up to when you get flat-out beat (again and again and again).

    • Justin

      On that note, I am saddened to hear of Kim Mulkey’s recent diagnosis. Sports are just that, sports.

  • M

    To one of your points about Griffin and his ego, I don’t have the exact quote but they were asking him how his life has changed since the Heisman, he said something like “People just like being around people who do great things.” wow.

  • Tomintulsa

    Baylor does have a good Dental School.

  • pokefan928

    The comments BGIII made after getting SLAUGHTERED in Stillwater this year, for the third time in his career, will forever tarnish my opinion of him as a humble or classy kid.

    • Kyle Porter

      Really? Two comments?

      • pokefan928

        I should have prefaced my comment by saying I’d been PO’ed at Bob long before the game in 2011. His freshman year, after taking the 1st of three beatings in Stillwater, he claimed, “I think we (Baylor) made them (OSU) look a lot better than they are. It wasn’t anything they (OSU) were doing.” Seriously, I just looked this up.

        At the time, I thought it was a freshman saying freshmen things, so when he talked smack after getting his arse handed to him again, yeah, it tarnished his legacy in my mind. Not that what’s in my mind matters, obviously.

        • Kyle Porter

          Gotcha, makes more sense even though I find it odd that he did that multiple times because I never really saw him do it against anyone else…

          • pokefan928

            Neither did I, but I also didn’t devour postgame writeups like for any other teams like I do for OSU. Maybe it’s that he thought his team was on the same level as OSU during those years, and he couldn’t handle the fact that OSU was, in fact, superior to them. I don’t know.

            But the comments he’s made that you linked to, that I mention in my previous posts, the now-famous, “I think Baylor now has their first Heisman Trophy winner” statement after beating UT, and the quotes other commenters have posted as well….I mean, come on!! This is not a humble kid. He needs to own up to it. I wouldn’t fault him for being confident. Everyone knows he has some serious talents. But he’s trying to profit on a media-driven lie. And that’s something I can’t respect.

          • Billy Covington

            R2D2 spewed the hate every time they played TCU as well…he has purple-frogdom pretty riled up (You really should get on over to every once and a while…somewhat akin to a purple CRFF). I find it hard to believe your willing to give Bob a pass for claiming Gilbert “slingshotted” to pick him off. And btw, R2D2 really threw 3 picks in this year’s game with OSU – but somehow, somehow (???), one of them was disallowed. I was at the OSU v Baylor “contest” last year (2011 season) and Bob’s antics were much worse than the camera showed … what a whiner! And don’t get me started on his top-ten 450 yd performance against our scout team D! Bottom line, R2D2 played the worst games of his career against OSU – which is but one reason OSU fans see Bob as all bark, no bite.

          • pokefan928

            The “slingshot” comment from Bob was the last straw for me. It’s just too bad Gilbert didn’t take it back 109yds. Although, if he had, I’m thinking someone else would be running PFB and Mrs Pistols would be a widow.

          • Kyle Porter

            Mrs. P would definitely be a widow.

          • Billy Covington


    • Steven

      I hope you never get elected judge.

  • CJ

    Sportingnews thinks pretty highly of Baylor. In their list of Top 10 Football/Basketball schools, they just named Baylor #10. OU also appears at #9.

    “…here are the nation’s top 10 dual-sport schools, the best combination of elite football and basketball programs. This isn’t just a one-year ranking; it’s about the present and future of the two sports.”

    Do Baylor fans think of our athletic program as elite? Hardly. We know our history. We are joyful for our recent past and moreso for our future. We do finally have elite coaches who are lifting up all programs. And the university has changed its mindset towards athletics by increasing the budget from $9.5 million in 1995 to more than $60million today.

    Can pokes not be happy for another fanbase? You have a great football team and Baylor is improving.

    Why would the response be anger? Anger is beneath you guys and just makes you look small.

    • Kyle Porter

      That’s why I wrote the post?

      • CJ

        You post takes both sides of your argument.

        The conclusion appears to be: “We should get along as long as Baylor fans know their place and that is beneath us.”

        You list some elite programs, I provide a recent article that shows that list includes Baylor.

        My point is that both schools have positive attributes, you don’t have to knock one (First, a few facts:) to make yourself feel better. That is what makes you look small.

        • Kyle Porter

          If you really and truly believe that OSU and Baylor are elite basketball and or football programs then this post isn’t for you to begin with.

          • CJ

            You may be right. The definition of Elite from the Sportingnews article is based on recent history and future potential. It also more about the program and does not declare an individual football or basketball program as elite but the combination of the two.

            You have your definition (putting Baylor people in their place) and I have the Sportingnews definition. I like mine better.

            Combined, it’s hard to argue that Baylor is not currently pretty decent and is continuing to improve. Throw in the #3 sport (women’s basketball) and we might be nearing the top.

            Maybe, you could make Baylor your second favorite team.

          • Steven

            It already is, he just can’t admit it on here :).

  • CJ
  • CG

    I remember watching the OU-BU on that sad Saturday. It was the positive in a pretty crappy weekend of CFB for OKState. Corso set the tone for the day and Pokes went from the * talk of CFB to – “holy crap – we could still be in it”. Thanks to USC but mostly thanks to what RG3 and some incredible fortune did to OU.
    But, who would have known the trade for OKState? After the TT Craig James Shed Beating: Mr. Weeden was Heisman King, OKState BCS #2, and rolling. Next week – RG3’s socks were talked about more than Mr. Weeden and Baylor got to usher in Walmart’s annual sale of Crimson and Cream.
    It’s fun to be mad on other teams. I love knocking RG3. But I guess I love watching OU get beat more. Good trade.

  • Bender

    It’s not a rivalry. OSU fans would have to really care about Baylor for that, and they don’t. OSU fans don’t like Robert Griffin. That’s all.

    I think there’s a lot to the Weeden/Griffin stuff, but there’s also a lot of wounded pride. Griffin got hyped up as this superstar who could do no wrong, and our defense always got dismissed as bad. And yet, when Griffin played OSU, he got stomped. He had to be left in against our second- and third-string to be able to puff up his stats.

    A big part of the problem is that what OSU did to Baylor was ignored because it didn’t fit ESPN’s narrative – or was twisted to make it seem like it did. I can remember more than one talking head using our game as evidence Griffin “could get it done against good teams,” yet they ignored when in the game he got his numbers and what the score was at the time.

    As for basketball, everyone except Baylor hates Scott Drew. Old news.

    • CJ

      Darn right. We love Scott Drew. He works his tail off, is a great salesman, and pushes the envelope without going over the line. He is a very aggressive Christian who doesn’t fit “the mold” of how non-Christians think Christians should act.

      No doubt, he could use some help with X’s and O’s. But, he’s almost 10 years younger than guys like Self and still has a learning curve.

      And we take the supposed Scott Drew “hate” as a compliment.

      • Chase

        If only Scotty could coach. Everyone knows he’s a great recruiter look at his team and all the stars he brings in! But also everyone knows he cant coach….proven with the stat “Baylor has never beaten a single-digit seed in the NCAA Tournament (since it expanded to 64 teams in 1985)”. Man if I was coaching 3 6-10+ guys and those quick point guards Baylor has I’d be pissed at myself if it wasnt final four the past few years. But thats scott drew for you

        • CJ

          If you coached a team that consistently ended the year higher than your recruiting rankings, would people think you could coach?

          I would think that person is a heck of a coach. And that’s what Scott Drew does.

          We hear about ‘all of the stars’ but Baylor has never had a recruiting ranking higher than 14. In fact, going back the last 3 years, rivals ranked Baylor’s recruiting classes as #14, #25, unranked.

          The last 3 years Baylor has finished #19, #10, unranked.

          No doubt, Baylor is improving and they will probably finish the year ranked 8 or hight. And Baylor has a recruiting class ranked at #4. They will keep getting better and better and the next few years should be fun.

    • D. C. Bear

      “He had to be left in against our second- and third-string to be able to puff up his stats.”

      Wrong, but not really relevant to the Heisman race.

      Baylor had 286 yards of offense in the first half, and moved the ball very effectively against OSU’s defense. The 36 first downs and 622 yards of offense that Baylor got were not just at the expense of OSU’s second string. The game turned in to an ass kicking because of five turnovers. Griffin “got his numbers” throughout the game, which was why it was so frustrating for Baylor fans to watch. We got blown out in a game where we had more yards, more first downs and had the ball for almost 39 minutes of the game. With those numbers, you’ll win a very high percentage of the time. With five turnovers, you won’t. In any event, Baylor didn’t lose after that, running off a series of wins and slingshotting Griffin to the Heisman Trophy, much like Gilbert slingshotted himself to that second quarter interception in the end zone.

      In yards per game, Baylor had the best offense in the conference, and the worst defense. We had an elite offense and a defense that couldn’t stop Kansas much of the day. Even with three losses, Griffin had the best season of any quarterback in America last year, and one of the best individual seasons ever for a quarterback.

      You can keep hating on Scott Drew. If he’d taken OSU from national disgrace and doormat to Elite Eight appearances two out of three years and beaten Baylor 106-65 we might just hate him too.

  • Chris

    let me summarise it:

    Part 1 = We don’t like you because you are good at sports right now
    Part 2 = We don’t like you because the media does when you are good at sports
    Part 3 = We don’t like you because your fans act like fans when you are good at sports

    is that about it? 😀

    • Kyle Porter

      Did you miss the part where I ripped OSU fans?

      • Chase

        He did. And if you guys were actually good at football this year(not just decent) then we couldnt be mad. But when your just decent and you get hype……man all the other decent football teams are jealous of the hype you got with your 3 loss record or whatever it was

        • D. C. Bear

          The hype Griffin got was deserved. He had one of the best individual seasons ever for a quarterback.

  • Dava

    I don’t hate Baylor. I’m pro Big 12 (except for ou during the season). So, Sic ‘Em!

    I have no problem with the fans. I have many friends that are Baylor alumni. It’s an exciting time…lots of fun stuff happening at once – some that have been builing up, some that seem out of nowhere. Yea! We DO know what that feels like. Go, Baylor!

    I have no problem with Griffin as a person. He seems like a great kid. And he’s a great athlete.

    My problem is that we were NOT his team’s only loss. He had 2 others, and barely beat Kansas…KANSAS. Those losses may not have had anything to do with him. But as you mentioned before, Weeden wasn’t responsible for the missed kick (by a hair) against Iowa State, and that ONE loss supposedly made OSU and it’s QB an inferior team. hmmm.

    And yes, I also have a problem with ESPN’s interference in both the BCS and Heisman processes. They could at least try to be less obvious about it.

    • Chris

      that 1 fg was NOT the reason Weeden didnt win the heisman, hell, Weeden wasnt discussed as a serious candidate for the heisman at any point in the campaign. OSU had a better team than anyone else in the Big 12 last season, noone is denying that, they did not have the best QB though, RG3 and our offence bailed out the defence many times last season.

      RG3 won the heisman because he is a younger, better QB than Weeden is, its that simple.

      Also, ESPN was rooting for Luck to win the heisman pretty much all season and only got behind RG3 when it became obvious he was the winner.

  • Htownpoke

    I think your interpretation of the issue is a bit off Kyle. I think most OSU fans take no issue with Baylor. The issue is that when the going gets tough for RGiii he’s not the knight in shining armour he appears to be. He does not deal well with adversity.

    The way he acted towards OSU was disrespectful. He got throttled and cried like a whiny ass. Then disrespected us in the media. He did not have many looks at getting beat this year but when he did by us he was a jackass. Was this truly a reflection on how he is? Maybe or maybe not. He’s definitely a great athlete but as an OSU fan I will never think highly of him.

    Please note that I am not comparing him to Weeden….which I don’t think most OSU fans do either.

    • D. C. Bear

      “He does not deal well with adversity.”
      Losing a football game isn’t “adversity.” Adversity is blowing out your ACL as a true sophomore and facing the kind of rehab that it requires to get back on the field. Coming back from it and winning the Heisman Trophy is dealing with “adversity” pretty well. I don’t expect you to change your mind cause hater’s gonna hate.

  • Clint

    CJ….you quote one opinion article from Sportingnews as the defining factor for elite. That doesn’t have much bearing to most people. Maybe Baylor gets there if they sustain this dual sport success. However, it’s incredibly difficult to do. Elite team sustain it….

  • Nate

    The article drips of bitterness. Baylor fans know that BU is NOT elite. I think you are mistaking happiness and pride for bragging (although Baylor does deserve to brag a bit after a heisman and Alamo bowl win, and almost 70 wins for the basketball teams). So don’t turn it around and say we are snobs who think we have been “above everyone” for decades. We know where we were and how fast a school can rise and fall. Just don’t whine when the little school competes well with the big guys. It seems fans from big schools sit on a high horse thinking they are the only ones who deserve to win and talk trash.

  • Mike Cunningham

    The OSU – Baylor dynamic saddens me. I spent my childhood up to the 7th grade in Tulsa and my family are OSU grads. I’m the “black sheep” who went to Baylor, which at the time was in the SWC. I’ve rejoiced when OSU does well and commiserated when they have struggled. I also catch at least one OSU game per year when I visit my parents. All that is to say I wish we could “all just get along.”

    Some of the rub between the schools are our similarities. Up until Boone Pickens, OSU knows how hard it is to compete with substandard facilities and underdog status. We both know what it feels like to have “Big Brother” (OU and UT) taunt when we struggle and we vow to do anything necessary to prevent that from happening again. Both fan bases have chips on their shoulders and relish victories over BIG 12 rivals (which mellows with time and success). I will not excuse my Baylor brethren for their immaturity, but I have also been present when OSU has lodged signature wins over the likes of OU and UT….and lets just say the opposing team didn’t get a smile, handshake, or pat on the back….

    There is room for all of us. The most vocal BU fans will talk smack, but the majority of the fan base just wants to be a useful member of the BIG 12 and stop enduring patronizing opposing fans calling for us to change conferences. I feel much of the BU “vitriol” and hype come from all the realignment scare. It is 50% justifying our membership and 50% “we might as well kick some **** while we can.” 😉

    Hopefully, things will settle down and we can turn our attention to more important things… beating the Sooners and Longhorns – which we both did this year. 🙂

  • Ryan

    Baylor Grad here. I knew you were going to get a few comments on this post…I think you did a great job at presenting both sides of the story. As a Baylor fan, there’s positives and negatives to take away from our recent success. In response to a lot of the comments already posted, it bothered me as well how Griffin at times acted on and off the field. I think he flops. A lot. He can sometimes act like a soccer player when it comes to getting hit…and sometimes it helps. But it still bothers me. He’s going to get hit a lot harder next year by Demarcus Ware. Secondly, I wasn’t thrilled at his comments after the OSU game. We got dominated and he had a horrible game. While he had some terrific moments throughout the year, I definitely agree that McShay helped steamroll his momentum towards the Heisman and draft stock. Lastly, it bothers me that Baylor fans now feel we have earned the right to trash talk all of a sudden. Realize that Tommy Swanson was our center 6 years ago followed by the terrifying Josh Lomars. While it’s great to see the recent success that Baylor has had, I also realize that it can vanish just as quick. I mean, Nick Florence is our starting quarterback next year as of right now.

    I do thing OSU fans are bitter towards Griffin but I’m not convinced that it’s a rival quite yet. Baylor needs to win and win some more to be in the same boat as OSU when it comes to being an established program. Glad you wrote the article man…

    • Steven

      Ryan – what is you address? I’ll send you an OSU hat. If you can’t be proud of Baylor after the season that we just had – you never will be.

  • Brett

    As a Baylor graduate, I don’t have any illusion that we are an elite team in either basketball or football. Our basketball team may get there one day due to the recruiting of our coach, but we still have to win the final game in April to even consider being called “elite”.

    I understand the frustration over Weeden not getting more accolades. He was outstanding AGAIN this year and I hope he does well in the NFL. Considering all the frustration and anxiety over conference realignment this past couple of years, I still root for any B12 team in the postseason or in non-con.

    You have a great group of players coming to your men’s basketball team from my area (Smart / Forte) that I will be rooting for in every game (except vs. Baylor) and I hope to buy a beer for some OSU fans at George’s tent next year before our football game.

    • Nolo

      Hats off to you sir. You get it.

      • Kyle Porter

        Ditto. And I root for other teams because of graduates like you who appreciate nice things.

  • Andrew

    Remember when OSU conferred a degree on Dexter Manley, a football player who was functionally illiterate? Say what you want about Baylor but at least all our players know their A-B-C’s.

  • Trip

    Man, a lot of comments for this one but let me say I am really glad you wrote this post! I keep finding myself torn between being happy for the Baylor fans I know and like, and annoyed with the ones … well, from the internet.

  • Htownpoke

    Just wanted to comment on the handful of Baylor folks who commented. You all are an example of my previous comment. I generally find Baylor fans to be great fans and your comments support that. I think for most OSU folks we don’t have any issues with BU, it’s just centered around RGiii.

    My two cents at least. I don’t think one person like RGiii taints my view of Baylor.

  • jeff j

    @Andrew…has Baylor tried to cover up any murders lately?

    • SJ

      No, we haven’t. But, we did have a pretty big basketball scandal that actually did involve a athlete who murdered his innocent teammate and a coach who tried to cover up all of his recruiting violations (to no avail). Here,, it has its own wiki page (only the most basic form of research known to modern man).

      Nobody is proud of it, but it is what it is. Its a pretty tragic story, actually – you should read about it – especially before you make idiotic comments.

      • Scott


        “Nobody is proud of it, but it is what it is. Its a pretty tragic story, actually – you should read about it – especially before you make idiotic comments.” Could also be used for the Dexter Manley story. College athletics is way different than it was in the ’70’s. Bottom line….comparing the graduation of an illiterate football player with the character assasination and cover up of an innocent’s murder is over the top.

  • It will be interesting to see which QB excels in the NFL.

    I’m not sure okstate or baylor will ever reach the elite level in any sport soon, but who knows.

    I don’t like Baylor basketball because of Scott Drew’s recruiting tactics. That is also the reason a lot of coaches don’t like him. Here is the most recent example.

  • UrbanCowboy

    I think the Baylor hate has been brewing long before Weeden/BobGriffin3. Mike Gundy was part of a coaching staff that went 6-6 at Baylor…that staff was rewarded by getting the axe. So I think Coach Gundy loves to get a lead and then promptly stomp a mudhole into them-look at the numbers, Gundy runs it up more on Baylor than anybody. So is that because Baylor is easier to run it up on or does Mike hold a special place in his armpit for Baylor? You be the judge.
    I also remember “hearing about” when OSU was recruiting Perrish Cox, OSU rented billboard space in Waco pimping OSU as the superior program. I never saw the billboard so I am not sure if that is true or internet fodder.
    I know one thing…I love watching and re-watching the Justin Gilbert endzone pick against Bob.

  • Paul

    Interesting article. Maybe I’m too old or too far removed but it never crossed my mind that there was any kind of a OSU – Baylor rivalry. If you ask me to rank OSU rivalries with the current and former Big 12 I would truly rank them last. Only Iowa state would be close and we have more history with them as a former Big 12 rival.

    Do OSU alumni find Baylor a little irritating? Yes, they have become a tech starter kit. Several things probably contribute to the lack of a rivalry but still having a negative impression of Baylor & RGIII.

    1. How badly RGIII play against OSU in the three games & how he behaved. He was dramatically outplayed by Weeden the last two years. Anyone who saw the head to head match up couldn’t possibly have left the stadium thinking he was a better player than Weeden much less a Heisman Candidate. Throw in his acting like a two year old in need of a spanking on the field (or maybe a two year old getting a spanking) plus his post game comments and the RGIII image is just confusing.

    2. OSU fans have been exposed to the gold standard of truly humble athletes in Barry Sanders. Can you imagine Barry talking about having just won the Heisman after a game or wearing superman socks?

    3. The way Baylor entered the Big 12 and their actions this summer. Let’s be honest Baylor never belonged in the Big 12 to start with and they don’t now. Trotting out Ken Starr to talk about the importance of rivalries and traditions? Tell it to Houston, TCU, Rice & SMU.

    • D. C. Bear

      ” Let’s be honest Baylor never belonged in the Big 12 to start with and they don’t now.”

      Let’s be honest, pre Big 12, OSU had a losing record in football and ranked 89th all time in winning percentage. Baylor had a winning record all time and was ranked 58th all time. Looks like Baylor belonged more than OSU did at the start of the Big 12.

      • Kyle Porter

        I actually take solace in the fact that most of the detractors of my post (both Baylor fans and OSU fans) have no concept of grammar or how to use an apostrophe.

  • G-Block

    Whoa. Your analysis of my Baylor Bear hatred probably saved me from spending $450 or so after my deductible with my company-sponsored mental health counselor. It certainly makes sense that Griffith/ Griffin and Scott Drew are the roots of my deep-seated ire. When I think of them, I find myself grinding my teeth.

    So, yeah, I hate Baylor. Oh, don’t get me wrong, I hate OU, too. And Texas. And aTm. Can’t forget to hate Tech, either. And my ex-wife’s ex-husband is from Manhattan, so I probably should hate K-State, too. Now, don’t get me started about THAT.

    Shoot, maybe I ought to go ahead and see that quack next week after all.

  • Jason BU

    These comments are hilarious. It sounds like a ton of OSU fans envious of the Baylor program, because Baylor recruited RGIII. Come on Weeden is a great QB. Be glad you had him for a couple of years.
    And I don’t know why you are making such a big deal about a few comments Griffin made. I mean were they too far of a stretch, OSU defense being poor….not really.

    • Mark

      LOL,…. you’re right… some of these comments are hilarious… yours in particular!

      OSU being envious of RG3? I wouldn’t take RG3 over Weeden in any universe!

      Kyle, you really nailed it in this article. I wouldn’t consider Baylor a rivalry though. To have a true rivalry (at least in my mind) there must be some level of competition, and the fact is there hasn’t been any competition against Baylor in my recent memory. They have been steam-rolled.

      Any angst I have against Baylor however resides almost entirely with RG3. It makes me mad to see the media hype him up to the level they have, and to see people even around here buy into it. Like most OSU fans, I cannot get past the whiny, drama queen attitude that oozes out of him on the field. I think what makes us OSU fans the most irritated is that we can’t figure out why no one else sees it!

      My biggest gripe about RG3 however, rests with the fact that he consistently links God to his playing ability and to Baylor victories. As if God actually cares about a GAME. I’m sorry, but I can’t understand how any religious person can reason that Almighty God has any vested interest in something trivial as a football game. That turns me off to any athlete who consistently takes it to that level.

      • CJ

        You’re entirely right. RG3 is all hype and that’s why nearly every pro team sent scouts to Baylor Pro Day. Because nearly every NFL front office is all fooled by the hype. What a bunch of idiots those professional NFL people are! John Elway standing on the sidelines of half a dozen Baylor games? What a moron! What does he know about quarterbacking? Mike Shannahan having personal visits at the combine and then coming to Pro Day? Has that guy ever had success in the NFL?

        And all of those people that talk about RG3’s great character? Geez, they’re all fooled. If only, they knew the details that you know. Like you said, OSU fans with no bias are the ONLY ones that see it. If only the professionals that have direct contact with RG3 only knew as much as you know from reading the internet.

        And of course, RG3 thanking God for his abilities…what is he thinking? Mark, I’m sure God has no interest in RG3. I mean a God that loved enough to take the form of a human with our faults and frailties and willfully died on a cross for us has zero interest in one of us. Amiright? What kind of idiot is RG3 to thank God for that? I sure am glad you are here to straighten us idiots out.

        • Chance

          Haha, you make a lot of good points.

        • Mark

          I didn’t say RG3 was a bad player, I said that I don’t care for his character. Saying I would never take him over Weeden is not the same as saying he was a bad player. NFL scouts are more interested in talent than character – surely you wouldn’t disagree with that. What I was lamenting is that OSU fans have consistently seen the bad character while other (non-Baylor) fans haven’t, probably because they aren’t watching the games that OSU fans are.

          As for God’s opinion of RG3 as a person, I’m not able to judge. Based on your comments you misunderstood that greatly. Obviously God cares about him, as he does all of us (where’s the guy with the John 3:16 placard?). What I take issue with is athletes who think that God cares which team wins a ball game, or somehow think that he miraculously enhances their athletic abilities. To presume that is extremely arrogant at best. According to his word, God must be worshipped in spirit and truth. I have found nothing in God’s word that indicates he would be concerned with sports contests. I’m pretty sure he has much more important things to do. That’s the point I was making.

          • Chance

            Interesting debate about God here. I can’t speak to RG3’s specific remarks about God, but I have nothing against an athlete crediting God for his/her ability, because, really, all we have is from God. Now, it gets a little weird/fuzzy when you are talking about sporting contests. I do think where we live, where we work, everything, has to do with God. Are sports in the realm of that possibility? I don’t know. I thank God for my job and all that – are sports that different? I think God could be involved with sports, but that doesn’t mean that if one team wins/loses God likes them better/worse. Just like people who have blessings or bad thigns happen to them, it says nothing about how God feels about that person. God works everything for his glory, and I don’t want to exclude sports games from that.

          • CJ

            I have watched RG3 pretty closely and have never heard him suggest that Baylor won or lost because God was blessing the team or not. I totally agree that God is concerned about the people in the game and not the game itself.

            I have heard RG3 state over and over that God has blessed him and is concerned about him personally.

      • Steven

        “To have a true rivalry (at least in my mind) there must be some level of competition, and the fact is there hasn’t been any competition against Baylor in my recent memory. ”

        OU – 82 wins
        OSU – 17 wins

        • Kyle Porter

          Haha I knew somebody was going to bring this up. I don’t think historical records necessarily connotate whether or not two teams playing each other is a rivalry (as I know the poster of this comment doesn’t either).

          • Steven

            Right. I think the new-look Big 12, assuming it stays together for longer than 5 years, will create some awesome rivalries. Obviously Bedlam and Texas/OU will be the biggest, but I think Baylor/TCU could become big as well. Of course, for a new rivalry to begin (or be revived in Baylor’s/TCU’s case), I think both teams do need to be pretty competitive at least to jump start the excitement.

            (I only brought up the OU/OSU record because it was too easy of a response to such a ridiculous statement from an OSU fan.)

          • Kyle Porter

            Don’t forget about Tech and…everyone!

          • Steven

            Once everyone realizes that WVU students will make Tech students look likes Rhoades scholars, the potential nickanames for the Tech/WVU game will be awesome.

          • Mark

            I’m not oblivious to the fact that there has been little competition in the bedlam rivalry, and is the reason I disclaimered the remark with “(at least in my mind)”. The OU/OSU comparison is an apples/oranges comparison to Baylor. The biggest reason why the belam rivalry has stayed relevant for so many years is the fact that it’s in-state. The close proximity of fans from both sides is a greater factor than wins vs. losses. Contrast that with the OU/TX rivalry which is predicated more on actual competition. My argument was thus that while Baylor has increased their competitiveness, they are still (currently) getting beaten badly by OSU in particular, and therefore removes the argument for a competition based rivalry. The fact that there is not a large contingent of Baylor fans in our state also tends to rule out a proximity based rivalry.

            Call it a ridiculous statement if you will, Steven, but I can’t see anything ridiculous in my explanation in this post.

          • John

            The Bedlam rivalry has a different dynamic than other rivalries.

  • Sean

    I think part of the issue is that last year was supposed to be OUR YEAR. We went 11-2 in 2010 and got relegated to the Alamo bowl. Then we had to hear about OU as the pre-season #1 and how Texas A&M was better than us. We went out, took care of business, but never quite got the accolades we felt should have been ours.

    Everybody still thought we would lose to OU and then explained it away after we curb-stomped them. It all culminated in the NCG and Heisman snubs we received. To hear the media talk about it, Baylor, with their three losses actually had a better year. So yeah, it is a little bit jealousy, but only because we didn’t want to have to share the spotlight.

    • CJ

      All of the media hype is not about the football year. It’s about the combined football / heisman / basketball / women’s basketball. It’s about the program not just one sport.

      Moreover, it’s about the storyline of a program that was in the dregs and now, according to some, could be considered elite.

      If there is no rags to riches, there is no story and nothing to cover. But it’s the underdog human interest angle that has Baylor in the media all of the freakin’ time.

      So, can we all shake hands? Maybe you guys can make Baylor your second favorite team and we can all hate OU together? Now’s a great time for it, they are underperforming at almost everything.

  • KLucas45

    I thought the writing was great. I do feel like there is more of a disdain towards Baylor right now because of RG3’s comments, but it also has something to do with them being in a similar boat to us. Both supposed to be in the middle to bottom of a conference. Both have smaller towns with a big brother an hour to an hour and a half away. Both have to recruit to small towns in Stillwater and Waco. Where Baylor is now, is where we were a few years ago in my opinion. They are a good football team with some incredible athletes. They have a great Coach in Briles. Their facilities are on the rise.

    I have a ton of friends that went to Baylor. I had the opportunity to be a recruited walk on at Baylor. On visits there, I was impressed with most things about Baylor. There locker room was the nicest one I had been in to that point. It was nicer than what OSU had at the time. I chose to come to OSU and loved my experiences. I have seen everything grow and becoem the immaculate facilities we have now. OSU is where my heart is. There has recently been bad blood, but I think it is because of the fact that both schools have improved and are fighting to be the top dog. I would put OSU ahead of Baylor overall because the #1 sport is football and OSU is clearly ahead of Baylor in that area. But as we are trying to fight OU and Texas for the top spot, Baylor is nipping at our heels and it makes us uncomfortable.

    I think RG3 is whiny and flops and is arrogant, but I also know he is an incredible athlete and a Heisman winner. RG3 played awful against us, but was “superman” against OU. I would take Weeden everyday, but that doesn’t discount the season that RG3 had. and i think you, Kyle, did a great job of pointing out all the different points of views about the budding rivalry with Baylor.

  • Ubben Thoughts

    Hey haterz…er OSU fans.

    You should all feel lucky that your 2nd and 3rd teamers didn’t play the WHOLE game or RG3 could have done to you what he magically did a couple of weeks later between the track in Lawrence and rip your hearts out like he did to the mighty Jayhawks.

    Now I realize that calling someone a hater is creatively bankrupt, but you give me no choice. As Big 12 Blogger I routinely laud praise upon RG3 and all you ever do is bring up how he was down 49-3 at halftime against OSU this year or how he is 0-3 in his career against the Pokes and his teams have been outscored by a combined 90 points.

    Let this serve as a warning that if you don’t like the unwavering school-boyish love I have for RG3, whether it be here in this comment, on Twitter, or on the Big 12 Blog then I will have no choice but to call you the hating hater you are. I might even bring up ridiculous transitive property arguments like I did here…!/davidubben/status/182841367985262592.

    Now if you’ll excuse me I need to get back to letting the SEC, and really anybody that will listen, know what kind of giant they are about to awake in the form of the Missouri Tigers.

  • Paul

    Fake David Ubben. I knew the fake Dan bebee and you’re no fake Dan Bebee

    First of all if you really work for ESPN you lead with the Iowa State crack. That’s your bread and butter. Work in some totally unrelated to the conversation comments about the greatness of the SEC. Pick Alabama over OSU by at least 30 even though they are not actually playing. That’s guaranteed to work out better than your A&M, OU, Texas & Missouri over OSU picks. Move on to a discussion of how bad the OSU defense was focusing on the only stat that matters total yards. Throw in some comment about Weeden age and close by comparing RGIII to Gandhi, Christ & JFK only with a better forty time.

  • John W Snyder

    Just google ” Scott Drew recruiting tactics”. Then you will see why there isn’t a coach in the big 12 who likes him.

    • Steven

      Ill do that. Right after I google “Eddie Sutton ….”

      Google finishes my sentence with words like “scandal” “Kentucky” “drunk” “mugshot”…

    • G-Block

      I did Google as you suggested and found a nifty story on ESPN from 2010 about Drew creating bogus positions on campus to hire AAU coaches – one of whom was the coach of top recruit John Wall (who was a HS Senior at the time).

      Maybe private schools don’t have to play by the same rules as everyone else?

      • SJ

        If you did any further research you would find that literally DOZENS of D1 basketball programs did something like this – some even more blatantly, like hiring a players father.

  • A different Dave

    First off, the article was great but I think the comments were the best read! 🙂

    A few thoughts/comments:

    The second I read the Baylor fan bringing up OSU giving a degree to a player who couldn’t read I knew the murder comment was coming. The whole “glass house, throwing stones” thing applies. No ones athletic department is squeaky clean, although some are far worse than others.

    I also knew someone would post the Bedlam win/loss record when OSU’s domination of the OkState/Baylor series was brought up. And rightfully so. I do agree with Pistolsguy that the evenness of a series doesn’t make a rivalry. It’s the want of BOTH teams to beat the other over almost any other team. I don’t believe OSU/BU is there at all. Would Baylor even be in your top 3 teams you want OSU to beat every time they play?

    As for becoming elite (which I don’t think either school is) OSU is far closer to being elite at football than basketball, but the reverse is true for Baylor. Basketball: Other coaches hate Drew, but he wins and will continue to do so as long as his questionable recruiting tactics don’t get him in trouble. Ford has potential but time is running out for him. Baylor is in a better position than OSU is. As for football: Briles is a great coach, as good as Gundy in my opinion, but consistency is the key to greatness in any sport. Gundy IS OSU football and won’t leave until he retires/is fired. Can BU say that about Briles? They hit a home run with his hire but if (hypothetically) Brown retires at Texas and they go after Briles would he stay? Or if any other big name school comes calling would he turn them down based on his love for Baylor as Gundy would for the Pokes? I think if Brile ls can win 8 games next year sans RGIII he is gone to greener pastures. That’s why OSU is in a better position than Baylor there.

    On last thing: thank you to BU for beating OU the day after our Iowa State loss. I was dreading hearing all the OUs trash talk after our loss. I appreciate you shutting them up. 🙂

    • Chance

      Yes to all of this.

    • SJ

      Good post.

  • Nolo

    Just so we’re clear, Brittany Griner and Bob Griffen are NOT brothers, correct?

    • Chance

      I was just looking at Baylor’s schedule last year and noticed that Baylor played radically different at home than away. Somehow they only had 4 away games – Kansas State, A&M, OSU, and Kansas. 3 losses and 1 close game. I’m not saying this to knock Baylor or anything (I don’t think OSU would have won at K-State), but I thought it was something worth bringing up. I’m not sure that it was that Waco was such a tough place to play, but it just seemed like Baylor didn’t play that well on the road. Again, not to bash, but if we are talking about Baylor’s uneven performance at all, this should be brought up.

      • Rob

        As a current Baylor student and lifelong Texan, I really have to say that this article misses the point. Will OSU and Baylor develop a rivalry? Who cares. Are Baylor fans getting a little to big for their britches? Probably, it still doesn’t matter.

        What really matters is that neither of us is Texas A&M, and that’s something I think we can both cherish.

        • FakePetey

          You win.

        • JD

          Most of the article didn’t make sense when it was posted and makes even less sense now, with hindsight.

    • Steven
  • A different Dave

    They may not be brothers but they go to the same barber I bet.

  • A different Dave

    They may not be brothers but they go to the same barber I bet.

  • Undeniably consider that which you said. Your favourite justification seemed to be on the net the simplest factor to bear in mind of. I say to you, I certainly get annoyed whilst folks consider worries that they plainly don’t know about. You controlled to hit the nail upon the highest and also defined out the whole thing without having side-effects , other folks could take a signal. Will likely be again to get more. Thanks

  • It’s funny that I posted in this thread twice about Scott Drew and recruiting and got slammed both times. And then today this story breaks about improper recruiting at Baylor.
    I am shocked.

    • JD

      The NCAA was at Baylor for 3 years and all they found was a handful of improper txts and phone calls.
      Baylor was penalized for it.

      I should note, the NCAA has since dropped its rules in regards to these types of txts and calls.