Mailbag: On Brad Underwood, Doug Gottlieb and What’s Next

I received a lot of feedback over the weekend regarding the Brad Underwood ejection to Illinois. I’ve posted some questions, comments and thoughts here in a Undie-bag as OSU rolls on to find its next men’s college basketball coach.

Just how good will we be next year?……..especially if Evans goes pro, Carroll utilizes his graduate transfer status, the incoming recruits decide to go elsewhere (see Brandon Averrette last year), Shine decides not to return because he can transfer immediately, and Dizzy, Lindy and Crimedog decide to exit the circus? -Todd P.

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I don’t think Dizzy, Lindy and Crime Dog are going anywhere, for what it’s worth. If you get a reasonable coach in there, I don’t think Carroll will either. But yeah … it’s not an exciting thought.

Pour the coals to the “Hire Doug” Train, again! Even if Holder won’t go for it, it’s great material for the blog. Thanks for the great job you’ve done covering the shocking news as difficult and confusing as it may be!

I’ve gone through several different emotions since about 3:30 on Saturday afternoon. In sequential order: shock, disbelief, sick to my stomach, sadness, anger at all 3 parties involved, and finally acceptance and calm. As you said, enough blame to go around.

Love the staff writer additions. They’ve given great insight and more in-depth access to more Oklahoma State athletic teams/events.

My case for Doug after hearing Carson’s interview along with my research on earlier things posted at this time last year:

1. Doug has no issue with Holder (at least for now) and knows what he’s getting into. Will choose his battles wisely.

2. Money is not an overriding issue.

3. He’s not bolting for a mid-level job, and has a plan in place for how to develop teams. Loyal and true.

4. Smart enough to put the right guys around him as assistants.

5. Recruiting. Enough said. There isn’t a living room in the country he couldn’t get into. Visibility through ESPN, CBS, etc. Add to that, finding international guys as he’s coached two of those such teams. 

6. Keeping former players/alumni/donors happy. The guy is a PR dream-come-true. Wants to raise his family here (I think).

7. I just selfishly want to see the guy come home and be given the chance to crush it! To the point that The Barn on the Strip starts selling 40 oz bottles of Jayhawk tears!

What an email.

Not sure I need to add anything to that one.

This all seemed EXTREMELY premeditated…to the point I strongly believe Underwood had an offer in hand from Illinois several weeks ago and when he met with Holder the first time, Holder (not knowing of said offer) casually approached it as follows: “hey, how you doing?, we are thinking this number, what are you thinking?, let’s meet again and see if we can work this out?”

It WAS NOT: “Hey Mike, I got a legitimate offer that I have to consider for my family an if you don’t get close to it, I’m gone.”  Not sure why Underwood would play it that way other than he did not get along with Holder or he thought Holder was strong-arming him or he really did think he had a better chance to win a NC at Illinois.

One could also argue that Brad did tell Holder that he had an offer and Holder said we are not going to match it and then covered his donkey by saying he was still in negotiations with Brad. -Todd P.

Two from pops in the same mailbag!

I honestly don’t know what to think anymore. There’s more spin than a tilt-a-whirl at Frontier City going on right now from both sides. I guess I land on something like this:

Underwood’s agent: “Let’s talk.”
Mike Holder: “After the season.”
Agent: “Might be too late.”
Holder: “Nah.”
Underwood: “I’ve galvanized the fan base. We’re winning. Pay me.”
Holder: “Let’s talk after the season.”
Underwood: “Who else we got here?”
Agent: “Illinois for $3M”
Underwood: “I’ve always loved orange.”
Holder: “What time we meeting?”
Underwood: “Bye.”

Underwood clearly wanted to cash out which, I suspect, is why he turned down more money from St. Louis and UNLV to come to OSU. It’s easier to catapult from Jawun Evans and a decent Big 12 finish into big boy money than it is from UNLV or St. Louis.

I think Holder overestimated Underwood’s loyalty to OSU and underestimated how antsy he was to grab that monster contract. That’s a fault, for sure, but I’m not sure it’s as egregious as everyone is making it out to be.

Holder said he was “blindsided.” That’s an indictment of Holder. He’s the one person who can’t be blindsided. You and I can be blindsided. The players can be blindsided. Heck, perhaps even Hargis can be blindsided. But not Holder. He doesn’t have that luxury. His job is to make sure he is never blindsided like this.

Think about it. Holder knew he had Underwood on the cheap. He knew Underwood had done a very respectable job, if not a downright outstanding job this season with the players he inherited. He had to know there would be other interested parties who would think their university/job is a better one than OSU, and who had the cash to overcome the buyout.

He knew he would have to redo Underwood’s contract. He knew it was a priority. He also knew that the time to get a deal done is now, and that every day without a new contract was a day with risk. Finally, he knew that he and Underwood were a considerable amount apart on the compensation.

With all that Holder knew, how does he get blindsided? He can be disappointed. He can feel like he misread the situation. Feel like his hands were tied or that he put forth his best offer (clearly he didn’t). He can feel like Underwood should have given him a last chance to counter. But he can’t feel blindsided.

He’s the guy that everyone counted on being close to the situation. Having his finger on its pulse. Knowing where both sides stood. Ready to do everything within his power to keep Underwood, and making Underwood feel confident that they could reach a mutually satisfying agreement on the pay.

Underwood clearly didn’t have that confidence, and was not happy with their previous discussions. Holder should have know that. Holder can feel like the worst possible outcome occurred, but he can’t say he never saw it as a possibility. That was his job.

I’ve been through a lot of negotiations and have worked to retain employees and clients. Sometimes you lose the employee or the customer, but if you never saw it coming then you were out of touch.

Maybe overestimated your ability to salvage the deal. Maybe just weren’t listening to your client well enough, or maybe just took the customer for granted. It’s a lack of situational awareness, a lack of empathy, or maybe just simple arrogance that keeps you from seeing. But that’s much different than being blindsided. I’ll accept a lot of explanations from Holder, to say he was “blindsided” is a self indictment.

Thanks for hearing me out. Keep up the good work. -Grant S.

That’s well said.

No one has said anything but I have a gut feeling a Bill Self factor is in play: I think it’s different after a coach leaving vs. a potential firing of a coach when he is talking about his interest.

I think when they ran it by him early last year and he didn’t want to act interested and get someone fired and then decide to stay at KU. Some other reasons below: Tyler is graduating He doesn’t have a buyout We just made a bunch of money. (Paid Underwood $1M less than Ford and got a $3M buyout) He looked nervous talking about it the other day. His family is getting old and I’m sure he wants to be closer.

And deep down we know what it’s like when you bleed orange. We could pay him $3.5-4M and he’d be all over it even though he could make more at KU. I don’t think we would talk to Bill until after he was out of the tournament although I have a feeling they did last offseason about his eventual interest in returning to his alma mater. What are your thoughts? -Jerod R.

As badly as I want to buy into this, Jerod, I can’t. Self is going to take a $1.5 million pay decrease to come to a worse school? I love OSU more than most, and even I wouldn’t remotely fathom doing something like that.